Lacereta agilis exigua arrived!!!

[Killian]

Here are some pictures of my Lacereta agilis exigua today when I released them into the outdoor enclosure. I was going to keep them indoors for the winter but the forecast is good and it is about 15 C today so I hope they will be ok. I live by the sea so we dont get hard frost plus being on the atlantic we benifit from the gulf stream.

I am thinking about installing a spot light in the enclosure for cold days in the summer, I will have to talk to an electrician friend of mine about this though.

anyway here they are:

[willj]

very nice! where does this subspecies come from?

[Killian]

they maybe chersonensis which are found further west than exigua but they are from Russia.

anybody able to confrim what they are?

[chris]

Nice pictures of the sand lizards !! I purchased a pair this year too. I kept them outside through the summer months in a cold frame. I found that they got very thin and were hard to feed. they were never interested in anything that I put in the cold frame. Eventually I brought them in for September and fed them up. I feel that it is very unfair to keep them outside without additional heat. They survive (for how long ??) but do not thrive. Incidently I put my 3 green lizards outside at the same time. I never saw them once ! After a month I dug them out ( I had made them a very nice dry shelter) and put them back inside. They started mating and the female laid 2 clutches of eggs !!18 in total !! Is that because our summer is like their winter ?? I think eventually I will put them in a heated greenhouse with spot lights etcI have just put them in hibernation today after cooling them down to give me and them a rest. Where is the best place to put them ??
Another thing is the sand lizards have started mating !! The male lost all his colour over the summer months and went very dull. I was ready to start to cool him down this week and the female too. No such luck !! He shed, became a beautiful green and started mating !! If you have any information about these two species please let me know. Also if anyone is close and wants some green lizard hatchlings I have a few spare.
Chris

[Iowarth]

Hi Killian. Sorry very belated response to your post. These animals are definitely Lacerta agilis exigua. They have a huge range throughout eastern europe and asia, and do overlap with other species, but these particular animals originated in the Crimea where only exigua are found.
Chris Davis

[Iowarth]

Hi Chris. I am surprised regarding your comments re both exigua and green lizards. Might I ask whereabouts you live? Certainly throughout most of the UK, subject to good design, orientation etc of outside vivaria both species shoudl thrive. Certainly mine do - and, in fact, I refuse to pass the young of both onto people unless they guarantee to keep them in this way. Incidentally, the males of ALL Sand Lizard subspecies (with the exception of a very few individuals) lose their green colouration early in the summer if kept properly. Regaining colouration and mating is indicative of him thinking winter had happened and Spring arrived. In practice exigua should typically go into hibernation between early September and end October.
Chris Davis

[chris]

Hi Chris, To answer your question I'm from Leeds, West Yorkshire. Thinking back I probably need to re-position the cold frame as the lizards didn't get the early morning sun until 9 oclock in the morning and it was sheltered after 5pm. I know that there seems to be 2 trails of thought regarding keeping European reptiles outside. One for and one against. Especialy when it comes to the reptiles from the East where the climate is warmer. I can't make up my mind which side to be on ! But I must admit that you do put up a very good argument ! And your reputation preceeds you ! My lizards are doing so well at the moment. And give me so much enjoyment. The Green lizards have produced 2 clutches this year and the sand lizards 1. I don't want to spoil this by putting them outside. I want nothing more than to have a thriving colony outside in a greenhouse or a large cold frame in a natural environment that would suite their needs. But it must be right. I think I will do some more research first before I put my reptiles outside. Finding out where they came from and the habitat that they are used to, so that I can reproduce an accurate environment. If you have any suggestions or ideas I would be grateful.

[Iowarth]

Hi Chris (there are too many Chris's here! :-) )
Glad to hear your lizards are doing well. So far as climatic needs are concerned the differences between the continental climate at our latititude and ours are not what people expect. (I am talking here about well into the continent - the western fringe from Holland down to Brittany is insignificantly different from ours).In essence, the animals are used to much hotter summers - so hot, in some cases that their hours of activity are only before 10:00am and after 4:00pm. As a consequence, none of them have any trouble with our summers.
**The problem is the opposite - our winters are, by their standards, much too mild and much too wet and too short. **
As a general rule most lacertids cope with this OK. But some individuals suffer from the humidity and others simply won't stay down and get caught by frosts. The former can be largelyaddressed by ensuring very well drained sub-strate in the viv and well protected hibernaculii. THe latter, unfortunately, usually involves taking the lizard indoors - but note - these are exceptions. I mentioned the winter length - with a (eastern) continental climate winters tend to start earlier and last longer. It is common for lacertids to go into hibernation in September and not emerge until April. It is not surprising that your animals dug themselves in immediately given this and the probability of a sharp contrast with the artificially ehated habitat they had spent some time in previously. With regards to keeping them outdoors in your neck of the woods I know of highly successful lacertid breeders keeping them in outdoor vivaria in Sheffield and Penrith - so it can be done! In fact, since the biggest problem is UK winters keepers in the north and particularly the north eat have quite an advantage over us southerners! If you are in a particularly wet area, a greenhouse might be the answer. Essentials are a dry but heavily planted habitat, standing water for drinking (dew does not generally form in greenhouses), excellent ventilation (at least one roof vent permanently open) and UV transmitting acrylic glazing. I keep and breed North African/near east species in this set up.
Hope all of this is of some help.

[djp1phillips]

sub-species: exigua

Found: East of the Dneiper river & the Crima
Characteristics: They often have three clear pale stripes on their back.

[chris]

Hi Iowarth,
Thanks for the advice. It was very much appreciated. I will take it on board next year. All my lizards are doing very well. I have 10 young Green lizards from late last year which are growing like mad. I also have 11 sand lizard young. ( I will post pictures of them when I can work how to do it) But I have another problem. I know the answer before I ask it but I want to know if this is unusual. My green lizards won't stop mating !. The randy "things" are always at "it" I know that the answer is seperate them but I can't as I haven't the room at the moment, due to all the young. From last year one female has had 5 clutches. I'm getting worried as I have read that this is depremental to their health. Even as I type this she is signalling that she is ready again to the male! She only laid a clutch last night ! Is this unusual ? I'm making sure that she has plenty to eat with calcium supplement. Hopefully she will calm down.

[phil]

hi chris, its not unusual for many reptiles to multi-clutch if conditions are "ideal". however, as you said, this may be detrimental to their health. as you probably well know temperate species naturally undergo a winter cooling even in southern europe, and this gradual reduction in temperature and daylight hours causes spermatogenesis in males and ovulation in females to cease. but if kept indoors and at summer temps, many reptiles (with sufficient nutrition) can continue to produce eggs or young, although usually with a rapid reduction in viable young. the best way of preventing this would be to give them at least a couple of months of cooling. this also has the effect of readying them for their next breeding season. in fact without a cool period, some reptiles will not produce fertile eggs, in the following season.

[Bri]

Hi Killian.
Nice set up and lizards. Is there an area outside the cold frame as part of their enclosure ?