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Post by chrisd on Sept 3, 2009 18:45:57 GMT
Hi, Can anyone help with the identification of my Lepidus that I have? I want to know if they are able to breed or are they different subspecies and unable to do so. Sorry I can't post pictures here but you can find pictures of both the females and male on www.freewebs.com/my-lizards. Thank you for any help. |
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Post by Iowarth on Sept 4, 2009 20:02:48 GMT
Hi Chris
So far as one can tell your animals are Timon lepidus lepidus. Although there are three other sub-species (oteroi, iberica and nevadensis) only lepidus and nevadensis are generally seen in captivity. The latter tend to be far less colourful. In any event, different sub-species will interbreed and produce viable young with no problems. It is only when you have differing species problems arise.
Of the other Timon species, princeps looks nothing like the Eyeds and pater and tangitanus tend not to be so heavily ocellated on the back - or even, generally on the flanks.
So, in summary they are almost certainly Timon lepidus lepidus and in any event should breed with no problem.
Chris
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nico
New Member
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Post by nico on Sept 5, 2009 13:14:22 GMT
Hello, I agree with Iowarth. The subspecies of Timon lepidus can perfectly give viable hybrids, and I think that in the nature, there are zones or these hybridizations take place in a spontaneous way: it is in particular the case in the zone where meets T. lepidus lepidus and T. lepidus nevadensis, between Valencia and Alicante. But I find a little bit regrettable that the breeders are not more worried of knowing the exact origin of the animals which they hold. I think that there are very particular geographical forms at lepidus T., and that for example, in France, the populations of the Atlantic Coast present perceptible morphological differences compared with the populations of the Mediterranean coast. Also, generally the individuals living in Spanish Catalonia (neighborhood of Barcelona) are if we examine them well, rather different from those whom we can see towards Perpignan or Narbonne (generally bigger, green more pale, réticulations finer, ocelles smaller and clearer). And sometimes even, it is possible to find in zones geographically close, very different populations. Example: these two couples of T. lepidus lepidus of the French Mediterranean coast.  The left couple (male to the left, female to the right) is representative of what we meet most frequently. On the other hand both right animals (male to the right, female to the left) belong to an isolated population, living in a biotope presenting a very particular microclimate : warmer, drier than the surrounding zone or lives the left shape, and of which it is isolated by urbanized zones. Personally I find that these animals which live in zones separated from about twenty kilometres are very different... That's why I regret little that sometimes, in terrarium, we made with Timon lepidus some French fish soup (la bouillabaisse !)... Nico |
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Post by Iowarth on Sept 5, 2009 16:01:50 GMT
I agree totally Nico.
Even within a sub-species, very different variations or races can occur in a relatively small radius. We have the same scenario with the Dorset and Wealden Sand lizard races. (and, yes, in the captive breeding programme we keep these and the third, Merseyside race, distinct and separate).
Having said this, I can see no reason to presume chrisd's animals are not all the same race as well as sub-species.
Chris
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Post by chrisd on Sept 5, 2009 20:45:27 GMT
Thank you Chris and Nico for your advice. I just wasn't sure about the different subspecies and if they differed genetically from area to area so that they are unable to breed if they come from areas too far apart. Thanks again for you informative advice.
Chris
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