"Happy Christmas"/Cold Snap

[barb1]

Hi Everyone,

Do you know how your outdoor stock have been faring with this cold weather? I am hoping for the best as last year Lepida did very well. Fortunately we have had only about 1" snow here at Canterbury but I know other parts have had plenty. However it's been pretty cold. I have managed to keep my shed temp. reasonable with a frost stat and the lizards I have in there have all their lamps on to keep the temp up. They seem to be doing fine. They must think it's spring with lamps on all the time.
Have a great Christmas & New Year.
Barbara

[chrisd]

Hi Barb,

I'm glad someone has raised the issue regarding hibernation. I've been a little worried with the weather that we have been having recently.We've had deep snow here (East Yorkshire) with temps down to -7 the last few weeks. My Viridis, Trills Exigua's and Billineatas disappeared suddenly mid Sept and haven't been seen since. They are outside in the cages I made them and it is the first year that they have done this. Usually they have been outside from spring to winter then they have had a short hibernation period inside my shed which has had carefully controlled temperatures just as you seem to be doing. However, they disappeared so suddenly this year that I didn't want to dig them out and disturb them and have I left them to their own devises. I'm regretting it now. In the really cold weather the cages have been covered with bubble wrap which has gone over the acrylic sheet already serving as a lid. The thing is that on the occasional days the temperature has risen to the high eighties and nineties in the cages, nothing has stirred even then. What do you think ? I'm half expecting casualties which I can't afford.

As previously explained on this site the cages are adapted rabbit runs on concrete with thick polystyrene as a base and layered as hides, sand rocks, branches have been added on top of all this. I added moss to the smaller cages as well for added protection. The sides are polycarbonate. Has anyone any suggestions/ advice ? Last year they fared ok in a greenhouse until early spring.

Just one other thing while I'm here. Can anyone tell me if the Acrylic sheeting that you get from B&Q which you use for shower sides and the like, is ok to use for the cage tops ? Will it let in a high percentage of UV light ?

Merry Christmas all and a Happy New Year.

[robv]

Hi Chris,

In the wild a percentage of the animals will simply not make it through the winter - you get resigned to the fact that truly outdoor animals tend to know what they are doing. Provided there is enough depth in the cage then they will be fine. If you look at the weather conditions in Southern Europe at the moment they are exactly the same as here. I tend to find each year that I lose the odd animal - as they would in the wild and it is just part and parcel of keeping them.

Sadly my adult female G. galloti eisantrauti appeared on the surface two days ago. There appears to be no logic behind why an animal may suddenly appear in freezing temperatures. She is now indoors and again I am trying a rather fruitless course of vitamins and energy food for her - but i know that the stress of surfacing in the current conditions has probably done irreparable damage.

Everything else of mine is well and truly out of sight - I have bilineata, trilineata, pityusensis, muralis, agilis, lepida, sicula and galloti that are all outside or in a greenhouse. It got down to -8C last year and they were all fine.

Hope all goes well with yours and a Happy Xmas to Everyone on the board,

Rob

[chrisd]

Hi Rob,

You must be tired of repeating the same advice to me by now ! I do listen honest ! I'm just not as brave as you as I don't want to loose any of my animals as I can't afford it, due to the numbers I have and the cost of replacing them.

I'm confused Rob, what stress will the galloti suffer from ? I've had animals failing to hibernate and coming out in the middle of winter but have survived indoors until spring.

Any thoughts about the Acrylic sheeting that I use ?

Anyway thanks again for the advice. Hopefully if I don't loose any animals I can start boosting my numbers up and I won't worry as much.

Regards,

Chris

[barb1]

Hi Chris,
Re the acrilic sheeting, I don't think UV gets through, that's why I only use it round the sides and not on top. I am sure during the winter it will give extra protection but in the summer they need natural sunlight.

Re your cages, can you not have them on bare ground with bricks , or wood around, so they don't dig out? I would be concerned they are unable to dig down into the earth away from the frost. That's what is going to be the killer. With my Billeantas I put a small polystyrene box in the ground, holes in the bottom (in case of water getting in). Half filled with earth, then a small turf on top, the lid on top of the turf and covered the whole thing with more turfs, then let them go in naturally. The Lepida are underground in their cave with leaves over the entrance. They did well last year. For the Billeantas, the female is outside but I bought the male in early November because I was not happy with his condition still being young. I must say I am very glad I did and he now looks a magnificent bright green with spots. I shall give him a short hibernation period in the shed soon, so hopefully both will come out in the spring.

Regards,

Barbara

[mark68]

Rob V said "If you look at the weather conditions in Southern Europe at the moment they are exactly the same as here. "

Well this morning in Central Portugal I let the chickens out early and had to sort out some fresh water as the water container was frozen again ! We have had many frosts including down to
-5.3c, the following day not rising above 3c.

For most of the lizards discussed here , keep it frost free where there are and they will be ok.

[robv]

Hi Chris - don't get me wrong, losing the 'odd animal' here and there is intensely frustrating! My experience with animals emerging early (or not going down at all) is generally with young reptiles. They tend to be that much more fragile that any prolonged period (1 or 2 days) is enough to do some irreparable damage internally. That said the Galloti has really perked up and has even shed her skin - she is feeding and drinking fine. I can only conclude that in her natural surroundings they tolerate very cold conditions, but will also be used to the weather being warm during the day. This may explain why she has perked up without an adverse effect - because this is what happens in Northern Tenerife at this time of year? I will keep her in until the threat of the frost has gone and then try and put her back outside towards the end of February.

As to acrylic - unless you get 2mm UV Transmitting (which Rob Pilley uses) then it will cut out all the valuable UV light. I use 5mm clear acrylic - but the top of the vivs are mesh which lets a reasonable amount in. I tested all my vivs outdoors and they were well within an acceptable amount. Curiously I also tested inside my greenhouse (normal horticultural glass) and there were small amounts of UV bouncing around in there. I provide additional lighting within the greenhouse for the animals that are in there.

I would also echo Barb's comments about letting the animals dig down - none of my enclosures have bottoms. They go down between 18" and 2' with a mixture of hardore rubble and various bits of pipework. I also fill the vivs with about 6" of leaf litter once the animals are out of sight.

Good luck,

Rob

[chrisd]

Thanks for your advice everyone. However, I can't dig into the lawn, as one thing, full sun hits the back of the house from early to late and if I move them out on to the lawn they would get less, they would get in the way of the family and also its not my lawn to dig up !!

As explained earlier the cages may be on the concrete but I've layered the inside floor with thick building polystyrene and on top of that towards the back there are enclosed polystyrene hides with plenty of compost/sand on top of that. The hides are buried pretty far down.

If the cages are enclosed in winter would the air inside not be slightly warmer than the air outside or would it stay colder longer inside due to been 'sealed' ? Also I'm getting worried now. If need be what harm would it do if I dig my animals up and bring them inside, apart from dis-orientating them with the seasons what internal damage could occur ? (if they are still alive !!)

Last year they were in an unheated greenhouse, similar to the cages outside and most came through ok. Most hibernated inside some dry hollow branches which were propped high up while one of my lepidas that had buried down died due to the dampness (stale air ??).

This is more worry/work than having kids !!

thanks again.

[barb1]

Hi Chris,

It could be that your polystyrene is thick enough if its what goes in brick walls for insulation. You could then cover the hides with leaves. I guess you could check on them on a sunny day and if still worried bring the young ones in. It doesn't take many days for them to perk up and within a week should start feeding. They will think spring has come early!

Barb.