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Post by chrisd on Feb 7, 2010 18:43:51 GMT
Hi, I hope everyone is ok. It's nearly spring !!
I have a dilemma. I found one of my Viridis (Billineata ??) very cold and out of hibernation today. It was very sluggish and probably wouldn't have made it back to the safety of it's hibernation chamber. I have put it in a cage in the shed with warmth and UV lighting and there is plenty of moss for it to bury in. I have made sure that it has had a drink of water and if it perks up I will put food in for it. what problems can I expect ? Has anyone any other tips on what I can do to help ensure it's survival ??
Thanks,
Chris
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robv
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by robv on Feb 9, 2010 15:38:09 GMT
Hi Chris,
I don't think there are any rules of thumb in a situation like that - and curiously I also have a bilineata behaving in exactly the same way! I sourced him from Hamm last March from a couple who don't tend to hibernate their animals. He was the last thing to go down towards the end of November and he popped up a couple of weeks ago looking nice and fat. If the animal looks in good condition I would just ignore it as it would suggest it has properly gone dormant and may just be poking its head up on a slightly warmer day. My male bilin is out again today and starting to look a bit skinny and not in as good condition. He is my only male and I don't want to lose him so I will probably bring him indoors in the next couple of days and start to warm him up again - on the basis that I would naturally start to see my reptiles appearing in March some time and therefore he will only be indoors for four weeks at the most.
My female gallotia (that appeared in December) has recovered completely and is looking really fat and healthy. I will probably put her back into the greenhouse at the end of feb to start getting acclimatised again.
Good luck with your bilin,
Rob
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Post by chrisd on Feb 9, 2010 19:04:55 GMT
Hi Rob,
I have brought my Billineata indoors now and started to heat him up. I don't think that he would go down again now he's awake. He's still very sluggish but he still has some weight on him. He's keeping his mouth open a little so I'll keep a very close eye on him to make sure that he doesn't develop a respiratory infection. Have you brought yours in the house or somewhere else ? I have put mine in the shed, with a heater on in the night and UV light etc during the day. He'll go back out hopefully in March if the weather picks up then. You say that your gallotia will go out at the end of Feb, won't that be too cold for it and risky at that time of year ?
I think that I've mentioned before that this is the first time that most of my animals have hibernated outside. They have aways had a few months in a cold but protected building. Each year they have hibernated for longer periods and have spent more time outside. This year they disappeared in early October and haven't been seen since. They seem to have slowly adapted. But I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for them.
Here's another question, what prompts the animals to come out of hibernation ? Is it arise in temperature ? An increase in daylight hours a combination of both ?
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robv
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by robv on Feb 10, 2010 12:42:38 GMT
Hi Chris,
The galloti should be ok - I am actually hoping she will go dormant for a few weeks. Their burrows go down about 2 feet with the addition that they are in the greenhouse, and naturally I will make sure she is not on the surface if the weather is going to be below freezing for any consistent period. I don't think she went dormant previously becasue she had only laid eggs right at the end of the summer and maybe didn't have enough time to lay down proper reserves. It is important from a breeding point of view that lacertids have a chance to go dormant.
In terms of the triggers for hibernation/emergence, I am sure there are scientific papers available on the web - although I would suspect that they could be species specific. From my own observations I think temperature is clearly an important factor - but I also believe that the animals have a kind of internal clock that prompts them to wake up irrespective of the outside conditions. Some animals will poke their head up and then naturally go down again if they don't think it is the right time - whereas some may not be able to re-trigger and hence you get the situation with your bilin.
Incidently my male is out again today - but when I went near his cage he scuttled off pretty quickly so I am just going to leave him to it. He has an underground chamber about 10 inches down, buried under a log pile which in turn is covered in about 6 inches of leaves - so as long as he is down there of an evening I am not worred at all. (I have been out with a torch to check though!)
Curiously I saw some of my arborea out and about in the greenhouse today looking nice and chunky - when the sun comes out is not too cold outside.
Rob
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Post by chrisd on Feb 10, 2010 17:58:31 GMT
Hi Rob,
I wondered if their length of hibernation might be time related. (the third option that I didn't mention.) Last year my Billineata's and Lepida's came out of hibernation in early March, I think, regardless of the weather conditions. However, my female Exigua regulary comes out when the temperature rises, even in winter. She's very fat but I know that she's not a great feeder. Might she be pregnant with eggs? Can this happen ? I've seen no Billineata's this year since Sept even when the weather has been warm in their cages. Maybe it depends on where they come from. If they come from areas where the winter is short then they don't need to rely on length, just warmth, if they are from colder regions then it would make sense for them to rely on length to ensure that most danger of hard frost has gone. It was just a question to stimulate some discussion here I won't look any further, but thanks anyway.
I must sort my cages out this year and make them totally frost proof with leaves etc, as you have previously suggested. That is if they have survived! This winter has been a hard one. I haven't slept due to worrying about my lizards and I would like the next winter a stress free one !
Incidently where are your trillineata's are they outside or in the greenhouse ? I have one in the shed from early winter which was going to hibernate under a stone in it's cage, which I thought that it wasn't deep enough. Immediately it was released in the cage it disappeared and hibernated. I have checked it regulary and it seems to be ok.
Whatever is said I still think we are coming up to the worst time, early spring. This is when the weather may change at the drop of a hat. I'm going to keep a close eye on them.
Chris
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robv
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by robv on Feb 11, 2010 16:09:49 GMT
Hi Chris, If it is any consolation my first winter keeping these type of lizards was really stressful. I think I must have emailed Rob Pilley about 100 times during that first winter! My trilins have been outisde for a few years now and are big chunky polylepidota which originally hail from Crete - so if they can survive a UK winter I am pretty relaxed about everything else out there! I think it is a very important topic, as for those of us that keep these animals with a genuine interest in their husbandry - there is very little literature available to suggest how to keep them. I think this forum is a good spot for everyone to share experiences - good and bad because the collective information will utimately help us all. Couple of shots here - not brilliant quality as they were taken on my iphone. First one is the male bilin taken today and as you can see he is pretty alert and scarpered when I went near him. The second is a shot of his viv to give you an idea of how protected he is outside.
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Post by chrisd on Feb 11, 2010 17:22:20 GMT
Hi Rob,
I think you're about sharing experiences, if there is something bothering me or I want to know the answer to something, or I just have something to say then I think that it is worth discussing it on this forum as others may benefit from it too.
My cages are clad in polycarbonate, which only lets light in the sides. Natural sunlight comes in from the top when open which is most of the year. I've padded it out with moss raked from the lawn rather than leaves as you have in yours.
I looked today and my small female exigua was out , no sign of the others. The temp in the cage was about 90f, old money, she looks really well. I wish I could paste some pictures on here of her but it just seems pretty complicated!
She is about 3 years old now but small for her age, due to being brought up mainly outside.about 8cm from snout to vent. Does anyone know how this stands when it comes to breeding her ?Is there a minimum length or can breeding go by age of the animal? I know the smaller the animal the smaller the clutch of eggs but is there a minimum size ? What happens in the wild when different ages come in contact with each other naturally? I would love to breed her this year but I might resign myself to waiting another year. I've still got another female that I'm going to breed if I have a willing male available. Thats another question, if everything survives, I have a male of similar size to the small female and about the same age. The large female that I have is a good few years old now and full size. Would it be ok/safe to breed her with a much smaller male ? He would be about half her size, if that!
Chris
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robv
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by robv on Feb 28, 2010 9:15:51 GMT
Hi Chris,
Female Gallotia has been moved back into the greenhouse now - she vanished straight away so hopefully she will go dormant again. Brought the male bilin inside yesterday as he was looking a bit skinny and I want to give him a bit of a feed up ready for breeding this year. He looks really good and is chowing down on some locusts this morning!
When the sun was out yesterday I saw several nigriventris out and about as well,
If the mild weather continues I would expect to see more things over the next few days,
Rob
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Post by chrisd on Feb 28, 2010 15:36:47 GMT
Hi Rob,
The Viridis seems to be doing fine. I can't say that it is feeding well but at the moment it looks ok. Its still in the shed but I need some sunny days to give it a boost. One of my female Exigua have been out and about when the weather permits but up here we have still been having very cold nights and some snow so nothing else has surfaced yet. I can't wait until the warmer days to come and see what has survived.
Chris
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Post by chrisd on Mar 2, 2010 19:58:14 GMT
we've had a couple of sunny days up here which has resulted in a male Viridis showing its face today. It stayed out until about 5 oclock. hopefully it has gone back down tonight. the sub adult trill which has been hibernating in the shed has also been out for the last few days, both looking healthy and well. I know that I have lost a few young trills and bills as they didn't go down far enough to escape the frost. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that everything else is ok. It looks like things are starting to happen !
Chris
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robv
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by robv on Mar 3, 2010 9:16:58 GMT
I saw a lepidus out yesterday - looking really grubby, but still chunky and healthy looking. I did find one of last years nig's dead on the surface - a victim of the frost of the last three nights! It is always irritating to lose lizards at this time of year becasue they have survived the winter. I think the adults know to get back under cover before nightfall because of the cooler nights - but last years babies still need to learn this. Another sunny day here and I am working from home, so will see what else is stirring.
Glad to hear that yours are starting to emerge as well,
Anyone else noticing things moving?
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barb1
Full Member
Posts: 217
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Post by barb1 on Mar 3, 2010 23:19:29 GMT
One of my female Lepida was also out 1st March. She looked dreadful, so brought her in and washed her. She looks fat enough but has lost an eye. Always was a bit funny. She is quite old and had always been kept inside until I took her on. She is now enjoying some tlc and a warm lamp. No sign of the other two who would be hibernating in the same cave system.
I hibernated my two juvenile bilineata, the male I rescued early before the bad weather and since then has had a months brumation in a cold room. The female which decided to hibernate earlier died recently having done 5 months. It's such a shame having gone all that time. I am now left with just the male, so will be looking for a 18month - 2 year female for him.
I have just tried to upload some pics. Not sure what to do with the Browse button, does it work?
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Post by chrisd on Mar 4, 2010 21:02:51 GMT
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Post by chrisd on Mar 14, 2010 18:01:23 GMT
Hi,
How is everyones animals doing? Anything else woken up yet? my 3 male viridis been awake and feeding the last 3 weeks now but there is still no sign of the viridis females and the female exigua despite the cage temps been in the high 80's. Anyone any ideas generally how long the females surface after the males ? I'm still wating for some of the young too.
Thanks,
Chris
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Post by viridis on Mar 15, 2010 12:48:15 GMT
I have had odments out,the muralis seem very active. A query Chris, is it good for the animals to go from the cold to the high eighties in such a short time?I havent been keeping reptiles outside for long but my cold frames have plenty of ventilatoin on the sides to make sure that the temperatures do not rise too quickly.This may have had the converse effect in the winter as the temperatures were very cold.I would appreciate your thoughts.
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