wall depth below ground lepida & lesueurii

[fluxlizard]

Hello.
I'm digging out some terraria for jeweled lacerta and australian water dragons this week (finally- didn't get around to it last year) and am looking for a little guidance for how deep to make the walls below the surface of the ground. I'm trying to factor in the need to dig to hibernate deep enough to escape freezing temperatures as well as escape prevention.

I've decided to try simple metal terraria with the walls extending into the ground. I would also like to put hardware cloth or something at the bottom to prevent mice and rats and voles from digging in, but then that would limit the depth my lizards could dig to escape the cold next winter. I'm planning on covering the whole terrariums with greenhouse plastic Langerwerf style next winter. I'm not sure how the frostline factors in- but hoping that I can do the job for the lizards with deep borrows combined with filling the terraria up with leaves in the fall so that basically the burrows are beneath a deep pile of leaves and then covering the whole terrariums with plastic so that water cannot enter the earth where normally it would bring the cold with it.

I tried the forums here last year for guidance before trying this, and didn't really get much of a response, so I'm trying again this year, hoping someone who has actually done something like this can offer some pointers.

Thanks much!

[barb1]

Hi,

There are a number of things to consider. How large is the enclosure going to be and how many are going to be in it? If you have a large enough area, you would probably find 6" - 1' is deep enough. I have found my Lepida have no desire to escape, that is the adults. Juvenile are a different story. In my enclosure I have a plastic cold frame, where they can go to warm up and feel secure. Also quite useful for catching them if required.

In the centre of the compound, there is a large mound with a cave facing north east. The extent of the cave system I have not yet discovered but I do know they have dug down at least four feet!

If they have this sort of hideaway in the centre, they will not dig around the outside. In fact, I have yet to see this happen. I am sure there is a picture of my set up on here somewhere, maybe a couple of years ago. As regards mice, they do get in. Mice will get in anywhere. The Eyeds seem to cope. They would eat any babies given the chance. I do not have any experience with rats getting in. I think if your try and remove the food at night this will help. My enclosure is covered with nylon netting and I can climb in and stand up, easier for maintenance because it is full of foliage in the summer. This setup enables them to live out all year round quite happily.

[barb1]

P.S. "Outdoor Enclosure" there is a photo of it a couple of years ago. You will see the mound in the middle with large stones and cold frame at the rear.

[fluxlizard]

Thank you so much for your response

I was thinking of making my lepida enclosure 6' x 6' .

For now 1 male and 1 female would be the only inhabitants, although I was hoping I could add a female or two or 3 later on at some point- I've read some conflicting advice about lepida and am not sure if multiple females cause each other problems or not.

I was going to face the enclosure to the south, and dig it out partly so I've got a south facing slope inside at a good angle for catching the winter sun. I was going to make either some rocky crags or a big pile of rubble (old bits of brick wall, concrete block, maybe even a chunk of asphault that was broken up when a parking lot was repaved recently). I was thinking if I went with the rubble I'd dig out a hole a couple of feet deep, fill with rubble and then mound the rubble up out of the hole another foot or so, and then cover everything with a thick layer of leaves before filling over with a sandy soil that would tunnel pretty well for the lizards. But I don't know yet for sure. If they are good at tunnelling, maybe a pit of rubble that they can burrow into is overkill and I sure like the idea of a natural craggy rockgarden look. Maybe too since they are so good at burrowing a mound in the middle would catch the sun and warm it and would be just as effective for the needs of the lizards as sloping the whole interior?

I was thinking I would have the walls of the enclosure about 2 or 3 feet below ground level.

My concern would be if the lacerta would tunnel under and then make another exit outside the enclosure (sounds like they do not in your experience- do they generally only make one entrance to a tunnel?) and the other concern is rodents burrowing into the enclosure and eating the lizards when they are hibernating (maybe not a concern) or tunneling in and providing an escape exit for the lizards via the rodent tunnel?

I have an enclosure for iguanas during the summer that has walls extending 18" into the ground and occasionally (1x every year or two) I have a rat burrow beneath to get into the enclosure. I'm kind of hoping a 2-3' wall would prevent that with the lacerta... I'm even considering going down all the way to 4'.

I was going to cover the enclosure in clear plastic during the winter to keep the rain out of the ground when they are hibernating.

Oh and a final concern- how to figure out where egg-laying takes place since these guys are kind of secretive...

[fluxlizard]

outdoorvivaria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gallery&action=display&thread=563

this one is yours right?

Is that the mound under the grasses?

I like the cold frame idea- how do they get in and out of it?

Did you start the cave in the mound for them, or did they decide where to put the entrance themselves?

[barb1]

Yes that is my Eyed' enclosure some years back. The cold frame has a doorway cut out. The male uses it most and will lie in there to warm up and feel secure. Sometimes he is there to eight oclock at night!

I did build a small cave, as I said mine is facing north east away from the sun and therefore rain. The rest of the digging has been done by them. There is some brick rubble inside to keep the mound secure. In the winter I cover the top with a tarpauling but rain getting in doesn't seem to bother them.

I do have the problem of getting the female out and last year she layed underground and I didn't find the eggs. Hopefully this year I will be able to catch her before she lays. That's where the cold frame comes in handy!

I could have quite a lot of eggs hatching this year, so some babies will have to be sold in the Autumn. I don't think you should introduce a new female after they have settled into the new accommodation. I lost a female doing this.

I don't think you need to worry about them digging out if you keep the mound in the middle and they will not be doing any sun bathing in the winter. They hibernate quite early by October and go off feeding towards end of August and don't restart till May.

[fluxlizard]

Ahh- so that's how you solve the finding the eggs problem- catch the female before she lays and allow her to lay somewhere else?

That's a great idea!
Thank you.