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Post by monkeyboy on Feb 24, 2012 12:30:09 GMT
Hello everyone,
While some of us are still waiting for animals to wake up, I wondered if anyone had every tried keeping leopard geckos in outdoor vivs? In the wild they occur in pretty extreme climate zones, parts of which can't be very different from L. a. exigua etc. Landscape the enclosure with lots of sandstone to soak up daytime heat, lots of deep refugia, keep it fairly dry in the winter??I guess as a nocturnal species they might be slightly less interesting....but could be an interesting addition to a collection.
Steve
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Post by viridis on Feb 25, 2012 11:15:11 GMT
An interesting thought. I think that over here in the u.k. it would be too wet for them.we tend to have quite mild winters compared to maiinland europe and our summers are not as hot.
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Post by fluxlizard on Feb 26, 2012 3:30:36 GMT
Years ago Ron Tremper (I think it was) spoke at a reptile show I attended. He mentioned in his speech that he had tried this and given up the idea as he was mainly successful in releasing geckos into the surrounding desert accidentally. Or something to that effect. Must have had a bad enclosure design. I sort of remember something along the lines that he was trying to keep lots in a really big pit kind of thing. If my memory about that is correct, the problems of commercial propagation would probably become a nightmare in that kind of setup (trying to locate eggs or babies, etc).
On youtube agama international posted a couple of old videos of Bert Langerwerf building the place back in the 80s. In one of them he has some leopard geckos temporarily housed in something outside, and his lizard method involved keeping lizards outdoors - I'm pretty certain that was his plan for the ones in the video but I never saw that he sold this species, so maybe he failed in Alabama or lost interest as the market price dropped. In one of those videos he also shows frog eye geckos in one of his outdoor terraria, and mentioned them as a possibility in his magazine article on outdoor terraria for as far north perhaps as Idaho and Northern Utah for outdoor terraria. But again- never saw him sell these, so don't know the outcome of his experience with them in Alabama...
I've thought about it here, but with geckos I'd probably never see them as I've got mosquitoes out in the yard at night so I don't spend much outdoor time after dark...
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Post by monkeyboy on Feb 27, 2012 13:31:26 GMT
Climate control has to be key, One would imagine in parts of the continental USA one could replicate the geckos home climate, which I agree is the problem with UKs oceanic climate. I'd imagine that a commercial set up like agamainternational would take a pretty hardnosed view of success based on cost/profit on such a common captive bred species. But plenty of people in the UK keep exigua, strigata etc outside both species which don't like damp winters. I suppose I was just pondering on another (readily available) addition to our collective species lists! Maybe an unheated greenhouse is the answer (other members keep sub desert species like starred and painted agama in these conditions I think) though I prefer the idea they could get some UV if they wanted it (one would suspect in the wild they must sometimes bask esp gravid females). While we're on the subject has anyone ever had any success with moorish gecko in a greenhouse? Anyway thanks for the feedback chaps, glad it wasnt a completely bonkers idea!
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Post by viridis on Mar 13, 2012 4:21:52 GMT
I disagree slightly about the exigua and strigata.I have some strigata outside but I havent seen them yet this year but its still early so I dont know if they have survived.With the exigua they are found over a vast range so must be adaptable and be able to cope with different conditions.
It would be intersting to put the question on lLeopard Geckos on a general reptile forum and see what happened there.Most people here keep them in fairly sterile conditions.
I dont know of anyone keeping Moorish Geckos in a greenhouse.The problem there is that they get fairly large and I guess that you would have be careful with what other species you kept in there.I can see it working but again in Britain it would be difficult between say November and March as its fairly overcast here usually so the greenhouse wouldn`t warm up.To my knowledge these dont hibernate properly so would need a warm period each day.I have seen them in Malta and Spain in the cooler months where they bask in the daytime whilst in summer they seem to be nocturnal.
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Post by monkeyboy on Mar 13, 2012 13:18:24 GMT
Hi Viridis, Good points. Exigua has got a vast range, but from where do most UK specimens come from I wonder, prob a very localised part of that range. However I agree its maybe not as good an example as I hoped! Good idea about posting on a "normal" reptile site, though previous searches has shown indoor keepers usually don't stray from the "keep at a steady x degrees with a hot spot of y, at night keep temps above z" mantra (with same advice given for all european spp on indoor forums!?). On the Moorish front, populations in med coast of france apparently hibernate (active in temps above 15 degs) and seem to recall in peter staffords "lizards of british isles" he mentions a pair surviving in a devon quarry for a few years.... But to take your point, think I'd better research winter green house temps and sunshine hours for its native range.
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Post by viridis on Mar 13, 2012 18:48:54 GMT
Be careful if you post on R.F.U.K. or the like about Leopard Geckos.I think that you will get a lot of abuse. I was on there replying to someone about "bioactive substrates" with Leopard Geckos because I didn`t think that it would work and really I wish I hadn`t bothered."Bioactive substrates " seem to be the in thing at the moment.But you cant get more "bioactive" than most of us keep herps outdoors. I am surprised about the Moorish Geckos living in England and I guess it would be worth a try as people keep Laudakia spp. and Australian Water Dragons in unheated greenhouses. I much prefer Turkish Geckos myself.I would imagine that imports from Egypt will be coming in soon.It may be worth buying a few and trying to breed them to introduce the young to our conditions.From memory there are introduced populations of Turkish Geckos in the States and I believe in quite temperate areas.Hopefully someone from acroos the pond will enlighten us on here.another type of gecko that might be worth a try is Cytodactylus scaber which has a wide range through central Asia but these are difficult to find over here. With regards to the exigua I dont really know where most of the ones originated from over here but I would imagine the Ukraine,as I believe that was the last " European"country to allow exports.Twenty years or so ago they used to come in as Russian Green Lizards and were in a variety of subspecies so must have been collected over a vast area.I remember seeing some in one of the pet chains that looked very like the British saand Lizards.
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Post by mark68 on Mar 20, 2012 19:43:58 GMT
I have kept a pair Leopard geckos outdoors where temps have gone down to -7c, with mixed results. One winter they survived. The next they did not. I am going to try it again with a diff enclosure design.
We have native Moorish geckos here, and they are very common. We have around 30 frosts each winter. But remember these are true European moorish geckos. I am guessing some of those imports are going to be 'softer', and in fact probably not T. mauritanica.
Plus they would be buggers to contain ! They are very good climbers.
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Post by viridis on Mar 21, 2012 1:18:20 GMT
Most of the Moorish Geckos in the trade over here come from Egypt.
Do the ones in Portugal hibernate properly Mark or do they just go into a light sleep?
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Post by mark68 on Mar 21, 2012 15:13:50 GMT
They do disapear for a few months. They have started to reappear in the last week. The odd thing is that in the summer months they are very common in the house. They steal alot of insects from containers I have on top of book shelves to store morios etc for the next days feeding. There are hot spots in the house they could easily use in the winter, but they completely disapear. I saw one up stairs yesterday that has been tucked away somewhere for a few months, I am pretty certain it must have been up there all winter waiting for the spring.
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