thamnophis

[phil]

hi all, just been reading something someone wrote last summer about the possibility of keeping certain garters out of doors in the uk. i used to breed several subspecies of thamnophis sirtalis every year. and i don't think you could find a more suitable outdoor vivarium subject. i don't think that the majority of them would have any climatic issues. i used to catch hundreds of them in a suburb of vancouver bc. in temperatures of 12 or 13 degrees during april and may. as a good comparison natrix natrix is very rarely active until the shade temperature is consistently around 14c.some races of t. sirtalis are found as far north as yukon territory where jan and feb temperatures can make scandinavia seem positively tropical. also being ovo-viviparous, the need for suitable egg laying sites is ruled out. garters in the wild thermoregulate much the same way as european vipers do and often flatten their bodies to face the sun and would make perfect use of britains meagre sunshine totals. i don't have a lot of faith in garter grub but thats just my experiances . fish can be used as a staple and topped with earthworms.steer clear of feeder goldfish and other members of the carp familly such as minnows. these contain thiaminase, an enzyme which destroys thiamin and causes a nervous disorder which frequently leads to death. an alternative which is readily taken even by wc. specimens is trout cut into suitably sized pieces. always try to cut each piece so that it has skin ,meat and even bone on it. alternate this with earthworms and the occaisional frozen thawed pinkie mouse and they stay healthy and reproduce prolifically. we had a litter of over 50 young from a 1.2metre t.s.parietalis

[phil]

an excellent source of information on all garters, their upkeep and breeding is dr. alan francis at www.gartersnake.co.uk/

[Killian]

very interesting, I had a read through that website and noticed a friend of the author keeps them outdoors in holland. I have contacted him in order to obtain the keeper in hollands contact details it would be great to have some more "outdoor snake keepers" on here and maybe get some pics of the enclosure.

[Killian]

just read a bit more and he keeps some canadians outdoors himself and a Chequered female survive a british winter outside! both species would probably be suitable for outdoor keeping.

I keep corn snakes boas and pythons, none of whch will take dead prey unless it is held in front of them or made to move in some way, will all garters take food from a plate?

[Pollywog]

steer clear of feeder goldfish and other members of the carp familly such as minnows. these contain thiaminase, an enzyme which destroys thiamin and causes a nervous disorder which frequently leads to death.

If you warm the fish to 80°C for five minutes in water immediately before feeding and use a good vitamin suplement the risk of Avitaminosis B¹ is greatly reduced. I would avoid using goldfish simply because they are high in saturated fats.

[phil]

this is correct andrew. only problem i have found with near boiling fish is that it frequently turns to a mush resembling chip shop cod which some garters and natrix seem loathe to accept. fresh trout is fine as long as some dietry variation is used. never been a fan of vitamin supps for any reptiles.recent studies have proved that they are probably of negligable benefit. even less so than rip off multi-vitamins mass produced for human consumption. there really is no alternative to a healthy natural diet for snakes. although many people assume garters to be mainly amphibian eaters in the wild, this is not strictly true. the further from east that you travel in north america the gradually drier and more arid the climate becomes. this limits the number of amphibian species present, especially the south west eg. inland california, arizona and nevada. but garter and ribbon snakes are still present, tending to veer towards a more rodent based diet. none of my garters of any of the varieties i have and still do keep, has turned its nose up at a thawed pinkie mouse. bare in mind, most of my garters have been captive bred, and i do believe this is the single most important factor in getting snakes imprinted on a particular diet. you have far better chance of getting a7 inch neonate to accept fish, than a 3 foot musk spraying , biting, garter of indeterminate origin which has probably spent all its life eating leopard frogs. if anyones interested i have a pair of 1 year old t.s.parietalis which i would let go to someone willing to pay the postage