Corn snakes outdoors

[mark68]

As well as a large collection of Lizards and tortoises I also keep snakes. I have mostly corn snakes which provide a small income. Has anybody out there have any experience with keeping corns or any other rodent eating snakes outdoors ? My main concern is whether in an enviroment much bigger than that than they are in at present they will find the (dead) mice. My thoughts are that in fact, there may be inside an indoor cage (which has much less ventilation) a concentration of confusing scents. Even if fecal matter is removed promptly they are likely to be residual aromas, that I sure a snake could pick up.

The other obvious concern is the risk of them escaping. If man can get into outer space, splice genes and invent a myriad of ice cream flavours, then can he not design a cage a snake cannot escape from ? I think I can. its just human error that screws things up (not closing it properly after changing the water etc..)

Can I have your thoughts/experiences please !!

[john]

If snakes fed in same place should always find the food. Start with a cage within a cage outside and gradualy enlarge territory if worried. Never heard of an escape proof pen if you can get in they can get out. Have never kept snakes but this is what Id do with mammals.

[mark68]

Thanks for the ideas.

Snakes can get through small spaces and will push open a small gap if possible. But I think if some sort of lock/bolt is used on the door, then they shouldn't get out unless I forget to close it properly, or design it wrong. Snakes do not chew to get out like mammals and do not dig holes in soil (unless it is very loose).

[phil]

hi mark. i have kept snakes for many years and although some species could probably be kept out of doors for most if not all the year round in the uk(this is of course assuming you live in the uk) the corn snake is probably not amongst the most suitable. i have known them to escape in the autumn and be recovered again the following spring apparently unscathed by the british winter but for a species to be suitable for outdoor vivaria i believe it must thrive rather than just survive. a much hardier choice for outdoor vivaria would be the aesculapian rat snake, which although predominantly a southern european species is known to have bred in the wild in north wales, and has other colonies in germany. also probably even more suitable would be elaphe shrenkii or russian rat snake. these cold adapted snakes would be more suited to our climate, but its just a question of building a suitable enclosure. as you probably know yourself rodent eaters especially of the genus elaphe are noted for their arboreal tendencies and it is imperative that the enclosure be escape proof

[mark68]

Hi Phil

Thanks for your comments
I'm actually in Portugal not the Uk. Having researched the climate in the natural range of the corn snake, the climate here should be suitable for them. The aesculapian snake is a lovely species and I would like to try them too at a later date.

Have you or anybody else you know kept rodent eaters outdoors ? I am wondering how a captive bred corn snake would adapt to being kept in much more spacious accomodation ? Would it still find its food? I'm sure they would probably find live mice ok, but they are used to dead mice and I would not use live mice !!

[phil]

yes, sorry about mistaking your location, the iberian peninsular has a much more suitable climate for elaphe species. we lived near malaga for several years, and although not particularly common i used to catch scalaris (ladder snakes) quite frequently. back to your question about whether or not they would find dead prey in much larger surroundings, i believe that once "prey" is encountered in a particular area in the habitat, snakes would return to this area time and again, much as a grass or viperine snake returns to the same garden pond once it finds a healthy stocking of goldfish. i personally have not kept rodent eaters in outdoor vivaria, however your location certainly warants giving it a go. another species certainly worth a try and one which should easily survive the more extreme central iberian climate is elaphe vulpina or the fox snake. however corns should thrive well also as there are still populations found as far north as the new jersey pine barrens and harsh winter temps are common there.good luck with the escape proof enclosure and please keep us up to date with any designs you may have and i will certainly in put any help i can.

[mark68]

Hi Phil

We have ladder snakes here, my wife found one a couple of days ago climbing in her garden shed.
I should have mentioned in the question where I lived you could not have guessed ! I will definately give it a go. I have some work to do on my other lizard enclosures first then I will try the snake enclosure. I already have a plan in my head and I will post some pics once it is done.
I am more of a Lizard man than snake man and find the idea of keeping a large collection of snakes in plastic racks tedious for me and unfair on the snakes. I have started to keep corns in large home made melamine vivs and still its dull dull !!

There are a couple of books that get close to suggesting keeping snakes outside but don't. Firstly "The art of keeping snakes" De vosjoli. He suggests much larger than the norm planted tanks with "bioactive soil" which breaks down the fecal matter. He also suggests spot bulbs rather than heat mats to provide a basking place like the sun. In "corn snakes the complete owners guide" by Kathy & Bill Love they talk about all the problems a corn snake has in a cage and suggest a wild snake has more choice of temperatures/humidities and the benefits this has to fighting off infections and parasites. They talk about whether UV light might be beneficial and state the sterilizing effect of UV light. But both books made me think the same thing that they hadn't taken the final logical leap to keep them outside !!

AS I said I will let you all know how it goes.

[Killian]

I think Garter snakes are an ideal outdoor species, they will eat pieces of fish from a bowl. Let us know what designs you come up with and how things develop.

[mark68]

I think you are right about Garters. Mainly due to a change in reptile keeping laws I decided to get rid of all of my snakes. So I won't have a chance to test my ideas out