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Post by willj on Jul 11, 2005 15:00:12 GMT
well finally i'm on my way to persuading my parents to let my have one. i've found a nice plot of land that has sun and shade at all times of the day. it's about 2.7X1.7 meters. I've even persuaded my Grandparents to get one!!
i just wanted to check a few things first though, i've been led to believe that you don't need to feed the animals that often, if at all, beacuse food finds it's own way in. I've also got an idea of four possible species Salamandra salamandra terrestris mesotriton alpestris bufo virids bombina bombina
i was wondering if i could mix any two (or more) of these speces together
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Post by Killian on Jul 11, 2005 19:47:08 GMT
If you attract in lots of inverts you probably wont have to feed the animals at all. I currently have a dead rabbit in my bufo viridis enclosure and the toads literally sit at the carcass picking off the flies. You can try and introduce some inverts like woodlice and I have found cricketts do ok during the summer.
Fruit will also attract insects in as will a compost heap and rotten logs etc.
As far as mixing animals, I think those four species would be fine. Alpines might pick off a few tadpoles, bombina species are usually fine as their toxins make the would be predetor spit them straight out.
Young newts and salamanders may be targets.
Bombina veriagata may do better? bombina bombina require higher temps to breed. I keep mine in a greenhouse.
You could also try some podarcis and midwife toads?
When do you think you will have it completed?
Good Luck and keep us updated
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Post by Pollywog on Jul 11, 2005 20:01:54 GMT
in an enclosure of that size I would not want to risk mixing any of those species as they dont have all that much room to escape each other. Also you should top up food suplies at least once a week with a bowl of dusted crickets.
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Post by Killian on Jul 11, 2005 20:12:01 GMT
I think that enclosure is pretty big to be honest. Why would they want to escape each other? If there is lots of rocks and logs they should have plenty of hiding places. Alpestris is very sub-aquatic, bombina spend lots of time on the surface of the water, my greentoads are quite diurnal and the salamanders are mainly nocturnal. I released baby alpine newts into my bombina veriagata enclosure and they are doing fine.
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Post by Pollywog on Jul 11, 2005 20:33:34 GMT
Species mixing is something to be very wary of, it can be done quite successfuly in outdoor enclosures but only if they are not over crowded and have enough room to escape each other. Bufo will see small Caudates and Bombina as a source of food, adult Salamandra will also see Triturus and small Bombina as food. Also the general setup requirements: Salamandra - forest floor. Bufo viridis - grassland / woodland border. Bombina bombina - marshland Mesotriton alpestris - field pond In such a small enclosure it is difficult to combine these setups effectivly.
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Post by willj on Jul 12, 2005 8:40:52 GMT
thanks for replying. i wasn't thinking of mixing all of those species, just two, maybe three if that would be at all possible. i don't plan to have huge numbers of them anyway, all i'd have would be a pair of each species.
I'm only in the planning stages now, thants why i want to know what animals i'm putting in it so i can make the best enclosure possible.
i always assumed bufo virids weren't as large as bufo bufo and they would be fine to mix with adult caudates. i do realise that it would be different when the juviniles come along though, and i'm working on ideas to reduce the casualties by as much as possible.
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Post by willj on Jul 12, 2005 17:14:33 GMT
how does mesotriton alpestris and bufo viridis sound?
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Post by Killian on Jul 12, 2005 22:22:44 GMT
I would go with the bombina and the alpestris if you are worried about canibalisim I keep these two species together no problems and my alpestris are very small. You could divide the vivarium maybe if you wanted bufo aswell?
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Post by willj on Jul 13, 2005 10:16:58 GMT
would adult alpestris apuanus be eaten by the virids?
one other thing, i've got this huge glass vivarium W60 X L180 X H40 would that be okay to sink into the ground for the 2 species?
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Post by Killian on Jul 13, 2005 12:10:09 GMT
the idea of an outdoor vivarium is to have loads of space available to the occupants and also the natural cycle of the seasons. I think you would be better to build the vivarium as large as possible and above ground so that these can both be avialed of. I am not sure if the viridis would eat the apanus, they may attempt it. Apanus are fairly aquatic however so they may only rareley encounter each other if the enclosure is big enough. Viridis and bombina would probably be ok together. There are people on here that do it successfully.
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